Rant number One

[Deleted]

      Y'know, it's amazing. If another char picks up a spare weapon, that is considered being sensible and practical. If one of my chars, any of them, picks up an object of any kind, people accuse that character of being "greedy". We just did an adventure, where the special fabric of the clothing there, was detailed and mentioned as part of the setting. So, at the adventures end, after my char helped rescue the people, my char asked for one of the cloaks they had there. Suddenly, the char is being accused of being greedy. Now, lets look at the definition of greedy. I usually use it as wanting money and things of high value. Another definition is wanting things that you do not need. Well, lets use that far broader definition in this situation. Would my char need a cloak? Well, what about the one he already has? Oh, wait... according to his dossier... he has no cloak. He has some clothes he can change into. But, he lacks a cloak. So, even by that broad definition, he is not being greedy, asking for something he does not have and would like to wear. Unless, of course, you want to say "Hey! No one in rp really needs a cloak... or any clothing at all, unless in the cold".
      Also, on that same subject of "greedy", any person who collects anything, no matter what it is, is greedy. You collect coins? You are greedy. You collect matchbooks? Greedy again. You collect string? Yup, greedy one more time. So, technically... unless your char has 0 gold and only 2 weapons and no magic gear at all... he, or she, can be called greedy. After all, you don't really need any of those things to rp, now do you?
      If a char wants a magic item, is that being greedy... or actually being normal and having desires for an item that they believe will benefit them? I could sit here and look at every dossier and pick out a way that char is greedy, by the broad definition. But, lets look at the more common usage, regarding wanting things of monetary value. If you have more than 1,000 gold, does that mean you are greedy? Or is that more along being thrifty? What of 10,000? 100,000?
      Saying someone is greedy when they collect junk (like a hoarder) is not being greedy. It is simply trying to find value in items others see as valueless. Is the item needed? No. Would it just be dismissed as trash, if no one took it? Yes. So, why is it viewed as a bad thing to take items no one seems to want? Why is it a bad thing to collect strange items? Irl, it is called being a collector. But, seems some is OH just consider it being "greedy". Personally, I think chars with strange idiosyncrasies make rp more interesting, instead of "Oh look, another XXX coming along, doing the same thing every other XXX has done in the past and will do in the future. They are so ~yawn~ interesting, doing the exact same things that every other whatever it is has done before. Just another, like every other".
My rant for this eve is at an end.
Mun of GarThog

[Dorian Thales]

This belongs in a different section, will be moving it to Fun Stuff, Mun Stuff or whatever in the world it's called.

[Dorian Thales]

Welcome to your new home, carry on.

[Head Moderator]

Does Rant Number One mean there are more coming? -.-

[badger]

it's entirely possible that its viewed as greedy because it breaks the notion of our quests. we do the task. we get xp and gold based on some predetermined chart somewhere - and if we're lucky there's either DM assigned loot or a roll on the random loot table. the common view is that everything else; from the trees, the grass, the vase on the end table - is set dressing, and not viewed as acceptable loot. this view can have spawned from video games, as while my character can waltz into a fancy castle abandoned by the ages, where there's an epic tapestry that i imagine would look perfect in my bedroom, if you can't select the tapestry (perhaps its meant to be burned to reveal a hidden drawer), then you're not supposed to take it.

so while 5 characters are sticking to the politically correct way of handling quests, one character is taking everything not nailed down and is viewed as a pariah.

is this viewpoint incorrect? quite possibly. i'm of the mind that unless the dm tells me i can take something, then i should not take it. this extends even to my actual honest to goddess thief character - who is of the mentality that while she's on a quest she should stick to the letter of that quest, and not deviate, because she has a guaranteed reward coming to her. in my own private rp of her, she steals anything that catches her fancy. but when she's on a job either for OH or NW she keeps her sticky fingers to herself.

kleptomania is viewed in society as distasteful. the hoarder mentality, is viewed as abhorrent and unhealthy. when one see's these traits playing out before our eyes, there may be a subconsious knee jerk reaction. i don't know, i'm not a psychologist rofl, i just think too much.

yes, its cute when characters have interesting quirks. badger for example, IS greedy by the TRUE definition: she overeats even when she's full, based on mental scarring and fear of starvation, this was displayed during a dark omens quest where she followed her nose to raid a pantry (which was also, as a means to get the quest moving along in the right direction). badger was fine with being a greedy shite because it didn't interrupt the flow of the quest, it was "just food" and could not be construed as powergaming however erroneously .. and she also did not know what was going on, doesn't know ophelia or what had happened to her - and so did not have the sufficient knowledge to give the quest the gravitas it deserved. on a different quest, say, if she went to the now scarred lands? she would simply chew on her jerky and keep her hands to herself because there are more important things to worry about.

i think one of the issues, is that the kleptomania started with garthog, and just kept going. in this instance, we have at least three characters (garthog, makran, kerrog) who seem to share the same viewpoints, all munned by the same dude. at that point, from an outsiders perspective, it seems like less of an interesting character quirk, and rather something more sinister. your attempts to shake things up, have fallen into the same boring trap you describe in your rant.

perhaps if you altered your tactics somewhat. you say your newest character saw cloaks described in terrific detail. in future, instead of asking for one (viewed as begging from people already disinclined to see you in a good light), why not buy one or trade for one? if he's picked up other items in other adventures, try bartering as an interesting character interaction. or perhaps tone it down, leave the hoarding mentality to the actual dragon - and accept that a muns patience can wear a little thin, and perhaps your actions are no longer viewed as cute but are coming across as disruptive, whether that's your intent or otherwise. it can still be salvaged!

let the flaming, commence

[Rhyldrin Ken'rae]

My blood pressure told me to stay away from responding to this thread. However, my inner psychologist-to-be told me I had to. Then Terri posted enough to satisfy both of my inner-opposing forces. So in short, +1 to Terri's post. 

[Deleted]

     Well, let us take a look at things again, shall we? Let us start with the adventure last night. Could the Char trade with some one else? No. Why not? Because no other char, that I know of, even has one of these cloaks. Two, does he have extra things? No, he does not. He has next to nothing. He is a low ranked, evil priest.  He is using borrowed weapons, borrowed armour and owns next to nothing. Are you now saying "Then buy some"? Since he has next to no gold, he can buy very little at this time. Oh, what of the loot roll? Actually... there was none. Any treasure gained was the adventure gold payment and whatever the chars happened to pick up.  Adventures do not need to have huge treasures to be interesting. Sometimes, the treasures are more about what you find, not what is rolled or what is assigned. I have rped since 78. Often, the best treasures found were not what was in the pile of treasure or bags of loot but instead, what was found on the dead, "set dressing" rather than the actual obvious treasure ("Hey, that dead guy has a ring. Toss it in the treasure pile. Detect magic later. The ring is magical. Identify. It's a ring of water walking". By your view of how to do a quest, that item would just be missed completely). Think outside the box, instead of just the same "This is the job. This is the reward for the job".  Treasure is what each person decides is of interest to them. If half the players, irl, saw an old map rolled up, at a yard sale, most, I would guess, would not even notice it at first. Those that did, a few might unroll it to look at it. Maybe one or two would find it rather interesting and decide to ask the price. It might be worth little... or, it could be from the 1700's,nd valuable, depending on its condition. So, treasure is what ever each character decides to make it.

     Let us move on to Makran. What, exactly, has he taken? Hmm... He did want to take a boat the one time, a new ship. Why? Because another char had told him, that the other char lost his ship and was looking for a new crew. Oh, how greedy of my char! To actually want to take an item to help fulfill the desires of another! Why, he should be hung! Can you think of other things he has taken? I cannot, off the top of my head.

     Moving on to GarThog... he hates waste. Why leave things behind as unwanted, if he can take them and use them? I find it amazing that we have badges, such as weapons collector, but if any char grabs weapons up... they are being greedy. Oh wait, no. It's not any char... it seems to only be my chars. The Dragon hoards various items. He grabs things he finds interesting, as does Kerrog, but not as much. Gar loves books and had the idea of a library back in 2013. He loves old pieces of art, treasures. Some might think "He just wants the gold". Take a look at his dossier. He has a short list of items he collected, and leaves at home. The gold value is not relevant.  He has no intention of eer selling them (much like irl true collectors). So again, if you want to use the broad definition of greed, you could... but, I could use the same broad spectrum on any char in OH.

     Next, you were saying that the adventure has set goals and rewards. I would say you have a very orderly iew of a quest. I have a much more chaotic one, ooc. Yes, there is a goal. We attempt to do something. But, anything seen... it might be takeable. Some people go to various places irl. They have souvenirs of their travels. Some of my chars do that too. They take objects from their various adventures, and keep them. As a moderator, you get exp and gold each month. Non-Mods do not. So, we get gold for... uh... the adventures, for one. What else? By selling things. Crafting is one way. Only other, that I know of, is by taking items on adventures, like weapons, armours, gear... and selling to other players or to the emporium. So, are you saying trying to sell things is a bad idea? I have a char that has no good gear as yet, because he has found none. He has mag. affinity, but has yet to buy an invocation. Why? Lack of gold. How many, of my 5 chars currently, have legacy weapons or items? None. Why? Because one is going to be using his gold for tattoos, another has yet to pick the exact specifications of his (that is GarThog, since he has the gold). The others? Need gold, and other gear, plus rank requirements. Will they get that at the sapphire rank? Not right away, because they will still lack gold.

     You see, unlike many of the players... I do not just say "Hmm, this item would be great for my other char. I think I will give it to them". I play each char separately. What would Kerrog think of GarThog? "The fool sells things he makes far too low. Long as he does, I'll take advantage of his foolishness".  Arn of Gar? "I owe him a debt and I really should repay him . I will... some day".  I could ramble on, but I hink you get the idea. As for items, my chars trade items to each other. I offer to do trades in Gars shop, as well, but only a very few have inquired about doing any, and only one has been done thus far, that I can think of.  I keep the chars separate, and each has their own mind and views. Nearly all could use more gold, except the dragon. Thus, he can craft at lower prices than any other crafter offerring things to all openly and frequently. Maybe others could match the prices of the supposedly greedy dragon... but none have, as yet. At least not selling to all.

     The point being... greed is viewed by each differently. How they define it and what it is. It still amazes me, that if one of my chars picks up an item, they are considered greedy, but when other chars pick up the same items... no comment is made about them being greedy, in any way.  Certainly seems like a double standard. We could go over example, like Gar and Dorian, taking books. Or the scrolls on the one adventure with Gar and a female char. Or any adventure where weapons are picked up. Btw, have you noticed... if you want to have a permanent NPC with your char, you can take a skill, or hire them. Either way, you provide the equipment for that NPC. I have armour and weapons for some of GarThogs' shops' guards, in case of robbery (not that there is much to steal, except the npc animals that are being trained in the barn portion of his shop) and his various tools (the alchemical tools collected on an adventure, actually, to create a large scale shop for alchemy). So, some will call it greed... I call it, thinking ahead. ~smiles~ Think outside the box more, and see treasures in more places than just the assigned loot (after all, on a Mission, the only "treasure" a non DM can give is mundane items, like weapons and armour.  If you skipped those items, you would gain only a small amount of gold and/or low valued gems). A treasure is what ever any individual values. Treasure to one, is junk to another.

[Deleted]

Greed 

[greed] Show IPA  

noun  

excessive or rapacious desire, especially for wealth or possessions.

Ok I was going to try and avoid this little Rant section all together but yeah,..that did not work. Alright you have some valid points, I do admit yes there is times when you can pick up a peice of loot, like any other thing. Sure you could take something every so often, but your chars do it ALL the time, notice I said chars not char because it is plural. You have said before Gar takes because he is a dragon, well whats Makran's excuse, or Kerrog's or even Arn's. Wait you will say Arn is a rogue, well Nani is a rogue, Mercy is a rogue they do not go around swipeing everything they set their hands on. You say it is because Gar is a dragon, well the story I heard was Gar became like this because whenever there was a quest, you hung back and didnt get anything due to others snatching stuff up so you decided to be first one to grab anything so you would get things from an adventure.

Now you did your examples, well lemme throw a few examples to you as well, alright this is a sign of GREED.

Gar, taking ten paintings from a home just because they were there and he liked them, dont matter the consequences, he took them,..that is theft. Even if it was an enemy, it is theft of a home so you put gar in the same postion as a rogue. The treemansion of Pedur,..wasnt it Gar that was wanting to try and take the gi-mofing-gantic tapistry on the wall,..mind you it was told numerous times it was TO BIG to carry, but it was continued to be asked about.

Next! Makran, at first he never stated the ship was for wulgar, he wanted it for himself to be Captain makran! Plus,..once again the greed overwhelmed and when the weapon the purty swashbuckler chick was wielding, that jade cutlass went overboard,..Makky dove in after it and continued TRYING to get it. Alright furthermore,..the Obsidian heart Member vault is for EVERYONE to use,..but yet you claim Makran is carrying around the 4 flame enchanted spears, wouldnt 2 have sufficed? Makran has 4,111 gold,..where all did it go? Hell Divine has 18K, Arcabella has 11K Sparks 7K. I mean seriouslly obviouslly you been spending that gold somewhere? Sooo,..why not buy some armor and weapons and put back the vault gear, wait you do not need to because you are using free gear, again that is greed. Yes alot of folks use the vault gear,..but when they get the funds they purchase, craft or whatever new gear so that the equipment can be reused by NEW folks coming in.

Arn,...need I actually bring up the cursed sword? I dont think I do, we know that,..another sign of greed.

Now onto another factor,...you like patting yourself on the back, and everyone does but making false claims should be watched because there are folks who craft things as cheap or cheaper than gar,..and then they dont have problems afterwards and well ok I will shut up on that one.

You say you do not collect things for your other chars or craft things for your other chars,..yet you just said Arn owes Gar,..so why can Kerrog not owe gar as well?

Yes some folks take books,.yes some take scrolls but they do not take every single thing nailed down. They do not right away say "IM CLAIMING THIS" then pester someone to try and come up with every logical and illogical way to get around something when they are contiunouslly being told "it wont work!" These are all signs of greed,...and if you do not think you have displayed greed in the past there is this little doozie I found sitting in Keldorl's mailbox, (betcha forgot about this, and would think all the new folks wouldnt know!)

The quest was Clue#6 Shimmergrove

Mighty Gar thog: ~the dragon rushed over to the dead man who had twin
blades, grabbing the pair up, looking them over~

Tesarik One: Logen 45/46 [20] || Keldorl 18/26 [17] || Nani 13/22 [16] ||
GarThog 12/38 [14] (0/28) || Alexander 0/68 [22] || Miyuki 0/19 [12]

Roguish Luck: Logen found balance, some how. More so posting up, leaning on
the Bastard as it's tip was placed in to the ground. Blood poured from his
nose and mouth. The crimson splattered across the snow for a moment and then
looked over

KeIdorl: ::That thinblade smacked down on Gar's hand.::I do not think so
dragon!

No True Form: the thing that hit her on the head (the bow) then using it she
pressed to her feet and probably ended up getting hit by a body,.~ ARGH (D)

a merciful edge: He landed not too far from her corpse, in point of fact, in
a crouch. After a brief inspection to ensure him that she was dead, he got
his chain untangled from her thigh and retracted it back into his weapon,
before hooking it back

Roguish Luck: towards Gar-Thog. "Right, you greedy bastard... Go RUSH for
the LOOT! Don't SEE TO THE WOUNDED, HEALER!!"[d]

a merciful edge: onto his belt. "Everybody alive?"

KeIdorl: THose are reserved for someone who actually was of use, now release
them or lose that forepaw.::He turned the blade and the edge slid over the
wrist.::I mean it.

Tesarik One: Keldorl, roll a strike, if you hit then you keep Gar from
grabbing the blades.
OnlineHost: KeIdorl rolled 1 6-sided die: 6
Tesarik One: ~*~ KeIdorl scored 0 poynts damage ~*~

KeIdorl: (15)

a merciful edge: (That is not a strike die)

Tesarik One: d20
OnlineHost: KeIdorl rolled 1 20-sided die: 2
Tesarik One: ~*~ KeIdorl scored 0 poynts damage ~*~

KeIdorl: (9)
KeIdorl: (bleh)

Tesarik One: Miss.

No True Form: I dont know if I am alive ~she groaned shoving the dead woman
off of her with a wince grabbing the bow again to drag herself to her feet~
can someone check to see if I am dead. (D)

Onyx Dalliance: [skip once]

Tesarik One: Gar, are you taking both butterfly blades?

KeIdorl: ::Well he didnt hit but that blade was there angled for the
wrist,::I am not playing dragon!

Mighty Gar thog: (yes)

Tesarik One: Gar, do you wish to attack him back?

a merciful edge: He stepped over to the poor woman who got that corpse
dropped on her and looked her over for a moment, then leaned in and sniffed.
"You smell alive." Though whether he could actually smell anything behind
that mask was in question.

Mighty Gar thog: ~the dragon picked up the sheaths as well~

KeIdorl: (Gooo right ahead ^_^)

Roguish Luck: Logen simply shook his head and reached for that bottle of
fully healing tonic and emptied it's contents down his gullet. [ Full Heal
Potion ] Once he felt the wounds knit and the energy return to his worn
bones, he glanced around

a merciful edge: That matter settled, he stepped over to the corpse and gave
a solid stomp to her head. No sense in letting them be easily rezzed.

Mighty Gar thog: (Since he missed, no)

Tesarik One: Healing noted.

Tesarik One: Logen 0/46 [20] || Keldorl 18/26 [17] || Nani 13/22 [16] ||
GarThog 12/38 [14] (0/28) || Alexander 0/68 [22] || Miyuki 0/19 [12]

Tesarik One: Does anyone else wish to attempt to stop gar from looting the
swords?

Roguish Luck: and started offering a bottle of tonic to Kerldorl and
Nani.[d]

Onyx Dalliance: [nope]

a merciful edge: (Alexander doesn't care who gets what, so long as they
don't try to take any of the corpses. He's gotta deal with 'em.)

KeIdorl: You are nothing but a waste of space dragon, hardly even worth the
insult of Wyrm. ::He spun the thinblade then seeing the bottle he took it
raising it for a small drink giving a nod.::

Roguish Luck: [ The ones offered only heal 10 ]

Tesarik One: (State if you guys drink the 10hp pot Logen's offered)

KeIdorl: (Took a drink!)

Tesarik One: Noted.

No True Form: ~Sniffed she leaned on the bow she had picked up unable to
see, she sighed~ well hell that is good ~cant see any offering at this point,
and would attempt but in her case she stood there and gathering her own
energy allowed the

a merciful edge: Although upon seeing all the potions passed around he
lifted a hidden brow. "Did you not bring a healer along?" He didn't, but he
usually worked alone, and he had his light magic medallion anyway.

KeIdorl: ::A salute given to Logen with a nod of his head.::

No True Form: wounds on her body to heal~ (Self heal +12)

Mighty Gar thog: ~the dragon then went over to the bow and picked that up~
Okay, anyone wan any of dis?

So as you can see a wounded ally was jumped over to grab a pair of swords,..my char attacked his to get him to drop the weapons due to said wounded ally. Now mind you it was stated wounded, many were bleeding, and injured in the party and he went for weapons. Even after mine attacked, and all he still went to grab the bow and pick it up even after the bow was stated to have been picked up by Nani. So that shows there was no attention paid to any of the posts except "WHAT CAN I GET"

It was stated that you get a little gold from each quest,...now mind you from a IC point of view this is the characters JOB, just like an IRL JOB they do their work, they get paid. They get paid in the gold Maria pays them, a roll from the loot gen and xp. So right there you are getting the added benefit of the roll from the loot gen, or even pam being nice enough to offer items out to folks instead of the straight gold/xp. Again this is a job they are sent out to do,..you do not go into your own work place, or a rivals work place and steal their copy machine, their microwave from the break room or a computer from a work area. No you get paid to do your job in Money and Work experience,..same with what your char gets. Now you can say everyone steals a pen here and there,.sure they can steal a pen but not the painting on the damn wall as they walk out!

Now mind you this is not to say you are being bashed on,..but you are blameing everyone around for stateing the obvious, it is something that can be changed if its WANTED to be change.

[Deleted]

      Also, on a side note, about the orderly thinking... back in the 80's, I wrote up an adventure. The idea could never be used in OH, because of the lack of time on adventures.  The adventurers were studying (which was an original requirement idea to gain a rank in AD&D). Their instructors, at the end of their training, told them that a new mage had taken over a magic school, after the former teacher had been slain. Now, the new mage in charge, wanted the death investigated, and asked for a trained individuals, new adventurers, to come and investigate the killing (the players were actually all starting new characters at the time, so were very low ranked and unknown personas).

     Each character would start off with their instructor (and each npc had a very different personality). The teacher would answer any question on the task at hand (and this was done with one on one rp, although some knew more than others). The group was sent to the magic school, to see the new head of it (with very little occuring for each on their way). There, they would talk to the new head of the school, who would explain an assassin may have been involved, who owned a tavern out on the road, away from the city and that he was being pressured to find the killer by old friends of the dead mage and the local mayor/governor of the town.

    While this sounds like a simple enough adventure, that could be done in OH, here was the twist. The chars were very low ranked and the assassin and his crew could easily beat the adventurers. The assassin was hired by the new leader of the mage school. The idea was, do not accept info just because it seems plausible, but weak, on the surface. I had 2 different groups go on that adventure, over the years, One did horribly, trying to hack and slash through it. The second actually thought more. One asked the mage why he had asked for new, weak adventurers, instead of more advanced ones. His reply was that he was only looking into it because he was pressured to do so, what was done was done, he sought no vengeance and the assassin was just doing a job like any other (yes, the mage was an evil char). They were suspicious from the start, and talked to the assassin, instead of just hacking their way through (which would have failed miserably).

    The idea was... do not accept things at face value. Do not think just because the DM has a char saying something, it must be true. The adventure could become whatever the players made of it. That is a huge difference between games, with preset bits and pieces, and live rp, on aol or in person. The way the characters act can change the course of the adventure completely.  Another adventure with the thinkers had a captured orc join the group. He became a regular NPC on the adventures for a few years, until the game stopped, due to real life problems. So, adventures should not be set in stone, as to a goal, a reward, nothing else involved.  How much flexibility depends upon the DM.  But thinking should be the main element on a good adventure, not just the goal set or combat. In this case, of the adventure I just mentioned with the mage, you would have done badly, unless you started questioning the why and how of the set up. Or, listened to others, when they did so.  So, thinking along the idea of "This is the task. This is how we accomplish that task" is not always a good thing in RP. ~smiles~

[Deleted]

Erm,..ok I know this is a bad idea and will get a roll of non-sense,..but what the hells that got to do with the price of tea in China?

We were speaking on Greed and such and you go to say how my char would do bad in a thinking mans chronicle? Or was it you saying I would do bad in a thinking mans chronicle, cause it really did not make much sense on the original point. I mean if you are saying I would do bad in a thinking mans chronicle,..isnt that sort of insulting?

[Deleted]

     Actually ran, that was directed towards Badgers comments on the idea that we are a group to do a quest, and nothing else. My reply to yours is following... I just finished typing it up.

      Ah, lets look at these examples, shall we? The ten paintings. Yes, Gar took them. One another char took. And yet another was burned. Destroyed. GarThog hates seeing old artwork, be it a sculpture, a painting, a carving, destroyed. So yes, he took them. Mainly to prevent their destruction. You want to call it theft? Then, technically... every time we kill a villain, we are committing murder. We take their gear? We are robbing the dead. As for Pedurs tapestry, Gar was looking at it. He liked it. Did he try to take it? Or, was there just questions about it? I don't know what you've seen on old movies, or know of fantasy rp, but... things step out of paintings. Doors, secret doors and passageways, are often hidden behind large tapestries. Simply looking at and examining soimething does not mean it is an attempt to take it. But, it seems you assume that every time any of my chars look at any thing at all.
      On Makran, no he did not mention it was for another. He was thinking at first, he could be sole captain (and like many young people, he quickly realized that was not a good idea for him, too much work, responsibility, etc, so he figured he would give it to Wolfgang. This was decided after he was already trying to get a second ship to take along, and before the ship had the fight aboard it). The weapon, he thought was pretty. Amazing to me, that when a faerie char says "pretty!" that is fine, but if Makran, the T'skrang says it, he is being greedy. Lets see... what happened to that beautiful blade? lost to the sea. Why? Because no one else tried to grab it and save it. Is that greed? Or is that admiring an object and wanting the pretty thing? On the flaming spears, yes, he borrowed four. Why? What do you do, when an enemy is in an elevated place, attacking? You either use missiles, magic... or search for a way up. I try to play Makran as not overly bright, so he chose 4 missiles to use. Will he ever give them up? Yes. Will he craft or buy an item? No. He picked up a blade, as well. He might eventually place some enchantments on it. His gold? He spends gold on things, but buying weapons and armour? I'd rather wait until we find them on an adventure or make a deal with another player. That is how GarThog got all his weapons, and most of his gea, from adventures. As for new folks? I assume you mean new players. Personally, I play all my chars as new when they first start. With the new players, I tell them about the Vault, and even suggest things they might ask to borrow, if they talk to me. Of the current new ones, I think I've spoken to 6 or 7, attempting to help them. Take a look at the vault gear. More gets added to it and only a few pieces get withdrawn. Why don;t you complain that Makran took off the armour and bracers from the swashbuckler, while another took the cloak? Ohh, maybe cause he traded the armour to his friend already, so she could do water breathing too, and the bracers went to another who did not even go into the water to get the treasures, while your char was kicking bodies over the side, without taking their gear. Want to discuss gold, greed and gear? You just mentioned all this gold that, I assume they are yours, chars have. Why not spend it? Or, don't be greedy... buy a new char some items. If you want to talk about not being greedy, why not be altruistic and help others out? Personally, I have offerred to loan a few chars gear from GarThogs personal arsenal and his armours. Mm hmm. That sounds sooo greedy, since it is only a loan, no? So basically, when I start a new char, my other chars do not help them. I do not cross in any way. Will Makrans loaned gear ever be returned to the vault, or Kerrogs? Yes, when they find better replacements.
      Oh, let us bring up the treasures and the cursed sword Arn got. Who got the first choice of item of treasure on the quest in the Zorcan sl? Hmm, I think that was ... your char. Or were you second? Well, what of the second adventure? Why... it was you again! Yet, you are trying to call ME the greedy one, when my chars grab items. Kettle, meet pot.
      Oh, crafting! Don't shut up there! I had, I think, Rhyss, craft one item at a great price. That is true. But, who else have you crafted for? I'd be happy to send some of Gars customers your way, if you'll beat his prices! I asked for who crafts what and base prices in the Gypsy and Zorcan sl. I spoke to who could make what I needed, and got 1 item. The other things... no reply was given about possible crafters that beat Gars prices.
      Arn owes GarThog, yes. Why would Kerrog want to deal with the good dragon, who he has never met? You see, I have rped my chars, in front of others, encountering each other. Kerrog has not met GarThog. Why would Kerrog want to try and borrow from a dragon, who might kill him if he did not pay fast enough? Kerrog will just wait until he finds something, or, trade for a good item if I find one or make one from things I have on GarThog (and yes, I do have plans to make one armour item, just not certain if one of my chars, Mak or Kerr, will get it, or if another player might, as yet).
      As for getting around things... problems are just that. You are given a problem, you should seek a solution. There are always solutions. It just takes thinking to figure them out. That, too, is part of rping in a more open environment.
      What of the first one? As I said, I learned, if I did not grab items before others, I would not get them. The fight was over. Now, if I went and healed one of the other 2 injured, I would have gotten none of the gear I wanted. I learned that lesson, and it still remains true. As for ignoring posts, no. I type slow. One finger, usually. I look at my keyboard while typing. You went on a mission I ran. I stated at the beginning that posts would be in order of the scoreboard. I stated why, too. Do you recall that? It was so I could keep up with the room. So sometimes, when a lot of posting is done quickly, my post is made not seeing the last few posts. Did I see her post? No. Now, with your char trying to hit mine, I was concentrating on that chars posting and the DMs. You are saying "Oh, there were bleeding and injured chars". Logen was injured, yes. As was Nani. But, the fight was over. Do you recall the previous adventure? Or the one afterwards? I doubt it. Let me state some facts. People complained that Gar was healing and not doing combat in the fight. In this one, they were complaining he was not doing healing fast enough. The battle was over. If I had went and healed, would Gar have gotten the blades? This was back when crafting first started or before, I'm not sure. So a blade that had fire was an unusual treasure. I don't think I've seen any since then, either, as loot. So, as a player, if I had gone to heal, after the fight, I would have missed out on the swords. Not healing cost what now? Hmm, seems like it cost a healing potion, because the one player was impatient. Other than that... no cost to the group. Thus, it looks like I made the right decision, then. It is not lack of attention, it is merely that I read and type slower. Try to not confuse the two. You'll notice on adventures, I post very short comments or longer ones rarely. Because if I try to do longer ones when not in combat, mine is usually invalid because of the actions others have taken. It is also why I often have my chars in the back, so when I post, it makes sense that his action seems to be after others have done things. A problem I have in general, in rping, and a solution. This is also why I dislike large groups in rp.
      You see the adventures as a job? So, your chars only adventure to pay the bills and have enough to stay alive? My chars are completely different. They go to see new places, new people, encounter strange things. They get paid to go out and have an adventure! The idea is not to get gold, for most of them. It is the excitement of finding new things, new places, new experiences. Sorry, but you make it sound like something to avoid, not smile at the idea of. My chars, most, take some things they see. Arn wanted glory (read his background story) so he carried the Emerald back to the Hall to present it. Makran goes to see new things and meet people. When he saw pirate ships, after the pirates kidnapped him... he wanted to take a second ship, damaging them. After he had the engeful idea, he thought of having his own. Then, thought better of it and wanted to share it with the captain. Know where the ship is now? At a nearby port and Makran uses it as his home, since he has not seen the captain about. Wesh goes for fun. He has very little interest in common treasure, but more in mysterious items! A lizard staff was found recently, and he is dying to know what it is. Once he knows will he want itr? Maybe, but doubtful. It is the mystery that beckons him! Kerrog is there is spread his religion. He is building his own temple in Sarkotos, and will continue to preach. GarThog hates to see anything wasted. He took dangling chains (mundane really) that others would have just left. They have been used to bind a prisoner once. They will be used in the future for more, I hope. Yes, he takes alot... things no one else bothers with, usually. He will continue to do that, as he will also try to find uses for items that others consider useless. Is it wrong to take items while on an adventure? I never thought so, instead, seeing it as being appreciative of the interesting items that the DM has taken the time and care to describe as being present.
      Not bashing? No? When one char takes an item, it is fine, but if one of mine takes one, he is called greedy? Now, I can see Gar, the Hoarding dragon, being possibly called greedy in the broad sense. But then, by that view, so was Robin Hood. Oh, he was a thief too! Taking items to keep them from destruction is being a preservationist. Hopefully, Pam will one day have the group (the secret society) come talk to GarThog, but, that remains to be seen. He would love to create a museum type set up in Sarkotos of old art, sculpture, toys, carvings... but, that takes time and gold. Makran went and took a ship home and wanted a spare. He ended up with the main one. Is that greed? Or is that damaging the pirates where it hurts? Living on the ship is just going back to his natural T'skrang ways, I would think; a home on the water. Arn is a thief, but not really greedy. On 3 adventures, he has gotten the pretty item once... and it was cursed. Wesh cares little of the treasures, and likes to dance into the battle. He enjoys the fighting, but always worries that the other gypsies might get killed. Kerrog is far from greedy. He is just trying to keep up and gain gear so he is not always the weak point in the group, as he spreads his religion. You were saying his asking for a cloak was greedy, while I said it was evil. A cloak is not overly valuable (but I thought the way Pam was describing the city and fabric may have made a cloak of the material she had described rather interesting, instead of the plain, common items). I say he was being evil because... he was not thinking "These people were imprisoned, their males mostly were slaughtered, the poor elves" but instead, was thinking "Nice cloaks here. I'd like to keep one myself", thinking only of his own desires and ignoring the the huge emotional problems of the masses. I'm blaming others for saying all of my chars are greedy, when the only one who continually take things is the hoarding dragon, and he does it with the reason depending on the item in question. Remember, he was around when Fenris smashed the ancient statuary at the graveyard, simply because it was built by Rumerians (rather like when ancient cities were captured and the precious artwork and statues were destroyed by the victors, with the ivory, gemstones and inlaid metals stripped away and melted down, destroying the artistry of the creators).
      So, to conclude... my chars are no more greedy than any other. It just seems that some persist in saying that they are, even when what they do is a one time grab of something or a desire to have a souvenir. Those players who are not mods and want things, either find them, craft them or buy them (unless someone gives them a gift) with the gold they acquire by adventuring or crafting. This means, taking weapons or gear sometimes and selling them. As an example, just for you... look at your chars. Do any have a desire for more armour, as a base, or do they all have their base maxed already? Like tattoo def 13. Any of sapphire rank still without a legacy item? Any in desire of a better armour piece? Or, do your chars have what they want already, crafted by your other chars, or found, so no longer really seeking anything that requires gold now? Seems rather like a case of the "Haves" and the "Have Nots", with the "Haves" claiming that those that have not and seeking to gain more, are greedy. No?

[Deleted]

This 'rant' is entering into the pointless stage. Forgive my harshness, or perhaps it was pointless to begin with. Though it appears I am not helping the matter by posting something myself someone really ought to say it. Enough is Enough already! No really,..ENOUGH. If you have a problem with the way people view your characters then you should not have created them as you did. We all make choices each time we play our characters. Do I kill that bad dude? Do I leave him alive to reform? Do I enter that dangerous area? Do I run in fear? Do I fight? Do I take the pretty blade because it caught my eye? Each action you choose to do defines your characters for good or bad. If by the choices you have made, others see your character in a light you dislike then start making different choices do not make a rant about how you are being treated unfairly! I at one time felt as if my character Nani was being treated unfairly not getting enough excitement in the quests, not getting enough recognition. Till someone clearly pointed out how is that possible when I tend to stay to the back and in the shadows and remain quiet!! It was a wake up call, did I like that wake up call NO,..it pissed me off a bit till I realized they were right! I had chosen to play my character in a way that would keep her from being the forefront of things. So thus my choices had ruled how people reacted and thought of my character. To further have gone on to complain about it would have been just foolish on my part. Have I changed Nani,.no not really because I have already decided she is who she is by my choice. I just moved on and created other characters that were different to try a different approach. All your doing here is creating further anger at you within a situation you have created by your own choices for whatever reason you may have chose to make them. Be it greed, need, dislike of waste or sensibility. They are choices you made that have defined your character. Live with it and move on. Or leave the SL, stop blaming everyone else for seeing your character as you have chosen to make them.

[Head Moderator]

I will say this, as DM, that because of your (Gar mun's) tendencies to have your characters grab every single thing, it makes me tone down my description of where we go because I am trying to control you taking everything and anything that's not hammered down. It is a real shame that I am having to alter my in-depth flavor descriptions all because all of your characters just grab, grab, grab and it isn't fair to the others, nor does it always make sense to just steal everything. It takes away from my story, but what can I do? I like flavor, and I like to really do as much as possible to make the players feel they are in the experience with my descriptions but then I know you'll steal everything. I'd love to describe the places we go in great detail down to the candlesticks and paintings and beauty but now I find myself having to figure out ways to make what I do describe as being unremovable, so it takes away from the setting a lot. :(

I also think Kit has a good point. You choose to play your characters however you want, that's your choice. No one is forcing you to do anything with your chars. Just like in real life, your characters have to live with the consequences of their choices whether good, bad or neutral. I've never in all my years of rp met any characters that were as greedy as yours, not even IRL have I ever met anyone that greedy but it's your choice and no one has a right to tell you that you shouldn't play greedy, if you wanna be greedy be greedy! But don't get upset when the consequence of grabby grabbying everything, taking cloaks off the elves, moaning and groaning because a sword fell in the ocean, and ooc wise trying desperately to get out of a curse just so you can keep the object in question is that everyone thinks you and your chars are greedy! Nothing you can say can erase the months we've all see how you play your chars. When it was just Gar you'd tell me "well he's greedy because he's a dragon" but then when you started making other chars, they were just as greedy on quests, and ooc you were just as greedy as well trying to get out of curses, even way back I remember you trying to talk me into letting you go back to a quest site to loot everything that got left behind and you can't tell me that the amount of gold you sunk into the raffle recently wasn't all in a goal to get as much as you possibly could so others could not get it.

It's not "bad" it's not "good" it just "is". Your actions and choices have made people think a certain thing, if it bothers you so much you are needing to rant it to the whole storyline then I'd suggest figuring out ways to change instead of trying to convince us all you aren't greedy and your chars aren't greedy because I'm telling you that will never happen unless we see CHANGE.

And if you don't want to change and want to play all your chars that way? That's your decision.

[Dorian Thales]

Hey hey! Why's Dorian getting dragged into the looting books discussion now? He despises reading.

[Deleted]

Its cause he Acts smart that he is getting drug into things.

[Head Moderator]

If my memory serves me right, Dorian's taken books offered as loot (since I do give book loot every now and again) and maybe a few other books that were interesting here and there, whereas Gar (I believe it was Gar, could have been another of your chars) just opened up your bag of holding and began cleaning off EVERY SINGLE SHELF in someone's library taking every. last. book. Huge difference.

[Deleted]

It was Gar lol,....the one where it had the soul sucking book that Ran was about to smack the fuck outta gar with,..and keep smacking till he failed the saving throw.

[Dorian Thales]

Hey now. Dorian doesn't act smart.